STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
China's president, Xi Jinping, visited North Korea's capital this week. NPR's Anthony Kuhn was covering a summit that was notable partly for what was not said. He joins us from South Korea. Hi there, Anthony.
ANTHONY KUHN, BYLINE: Hey, Steve.
INSKEEP: OK. So the outside world mainly worries about North Korea because of its nuclear weapons. But we have no public indication that Xi brought this up - President Xi brought this up with Kim Jong Un, the leader of North Korea. Could they have discussed it privately?
KUHN: It's certainly not impossible, but experts think it's unlikely and not so surprising. First of all, there's a cultural angle. China prefers to raise sensitive issues behind closed doors. They don't want to embarrass their hosts by airing it in public. China's leader, Xi Jinping, did raise the nuclear issue in 2019, but there's been a shift since about 2023, and they stopped mentioning denuclearization. Experts note that this does not mean that China has necessarily given up on denuclearization. It may be they feel it's, you know, counterproductive to bring it up, so this is more of a tactical shift.
INSKEEP: OK. So let's talk about this meeting. The president of China goes across the border to their neighbor, brings a lot of people with him. Why a big delegation?
KUHN: Well, Xi Jinping described his trip to North Korea as a sort of a reset, a new starting point for China and North Korea ties. And experts take that to mean that China wants to reassert its influence with North Korea, which had waned since North Korea and Russia signed a mutual defense pact in 2024, and North Korea sent troops to help Russia fight Ukraine. Now, Xi Jinping proposed restoring ties by ramping up engagement across the board, from top-level political exchanges, economics, trade, culture, law enforcement and even military ties. And he brought China's defense minister and other officials. Now, what's interesting is North Korean state media did not mention the military cooperation. It's possible they're not comfortable about it, but it certainly raised eyebrows.
INSKEEP: Oh, this is really interesting. So North Korea's trying to play Russia off against China a little bit, trying not to be too dependent on China. Where does the United States fit into all of this?
KUHN: Well, there are questions about how the U.S should respond. And as you know, there's long been this debate on how to deal with North Korea. Some people advocate getting North Korea to unilaterally denuclearize first and then reward them with the lifting of sanctions, security guarantees, whatever. Others advocate a sort of phased arms-control approach in which each move towards denuclearization is then rewarded, and the two sides gradually build trust. So I spoke to Andrew Yeo, an Asia expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. Here's how he sees it.
ANDREW YEO: I think the sentiment has also changed in D.C., where we know that pushing denuclearization is not going to get you anywhere with North Korea, so why bring it up up front?
KUHN: And the shift is going on elsewhere. It seems the more nuclear weapons that North Korea builds, the more countries feel they need to shift their approach to the nuclear issue in North Korea.
INSKEEP: I'm remembering President Trump's first term, Anthony, in which the president made threatening remarks about North Korea, also exchanged what he virtually described as love letters, ended up meeting Kim a couple of times. Any chance that Trump would meet the North Korean leader?
KUHN: Yes. You remember the fire and fury of 2017. Since then, both leaders have expressed a willingness to meet. They talk about their chemistry from back then, but both don't seem to have it high on their agendas. But of all the influential powers we're talking about here - Russia, China, North Korea and the U.S. - the only two leaders who have not met recently are Trump and Kim Jong Un. So there's a logic to it. Andrew Yeo thinks that the North Koreans probably feel that, given this background, President Trump offers them the best chance they're going to get for a good deal with the U.S.
INSKEEP: Anthony, thanks so much.
KUHN: Thank you, Steve.
INSKEEP: NPR's Anthony Kuhn in Seoul.
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