A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
The Federal Reserve is not the only independent federal agency that President Trump is trying to exert greater control over. In May, the Supreme Court said Trump could temporarily remove the heads of the National Labor Relations Board and the Merit Systems Protection Board, both appointed by President Biden, as their legal challenges play out in court.
Let's bring in Rohit Chopra, who has experience with two independent federal regulators. He served as a commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission in the First Trump administration. He also directed the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in the Biden and Trump administrations until he was fired by President Trump in February of this year. So, Rohit, what do you make of the president saying he intends to fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook?
ROHIT CHOPRA: Well, for months, the White House has been haunting the Fed, looking to push out members of the board, including its chairman, Jay Powell. This is part, as you noted, of a broader trend to try and make these independent watchdogs essentially into obedient lap dogs. And I think when it comes to the Fed, the stakes are very high. Americans are really worried about higher prices in the grocery stores, and new college grads are struggling to find jobs. This is going to even make it more worrisome because none of this takeover is going to really help the economy.
MARTÍNEZ: Do you think it's a campaign of terror, so to speak, to get people to bend to his will?
CHOPRA: Well, I think this is part, as you note, of a series of actions. When President Trump fired me, the Supreme Court made it clear that for years, it was OK to do that. But there are some agencies and members that are off-limits, and everyone knows that he is willing to push the edge and cross the line when it comes to those laws if it serves his own agenda.
MARTÍNEZ: What would be the ramifications of moves like this, especially when it comes to things like the Federal Trade Commission?
CHOPRA: Well, it's hard to say. We know that when it comes to the Federal Reserve or the Federal Trade Commission, that means that oversight of the markets could become much more uncertain. That could result in higher prices. That could result in financial instability. And that can mean picking winners and losers based on their political ideology rather than the law itself.
MARTÍNEZ: The oversight would be uncertain, or would it be just something that really wouldn't exist? Would it - I mean, would - it would be more of what the president would want as opposed to what an independent agency would determine is OK.
CHOPRA: That's right. Independent agencies - they're supposed to enforce the law fairly without looking at those political affiliations. And we have seen, at some of these agencies he's looked to take over, he's essentially shuttered the enforcement. And many of those companies are now looking for ways to make him happy to avoid scrutiny.
MARTÍNEZ: I know that you know Governor Cook personally. I'm wondering if you've spoken with her at all since the president began targeting her and how she might be feeling about things.
CHOPRA: Well, look, Governor Cook is saying that she will fight this. This is a massive breach that has no precedent, and if she can be removed, then so can every single other member. So we'll see how this plays out. The court has drawn a line that Federal Reserve Board members are in a different category. And again, the stakes are pretty high when it comes to our broader economy.
MARTÍNEZ: But why shouldn't a president have more control over an agency such as the FTC or the Federal Reserve?
CHOPRA: Well, that's just not what the law says. The law established some of these agencies to make sure that they were fairly enforcing the law, that they would not be subjected to unnecessary political interference and that companies with lots of political power who make political contributions wouldn't be able to lobby themselves out of accountability. And of course, independent central banks that make decisions about interest rates based on data - that's really key. And we don't see a path where the president taking over this board is really going to help people who are struggling.
MARTÍNEZ: One more thing, quickly. What's it like to be fired by Donald Trump? Is it as theatrical as it was on "The Apprentice"?
CHOPRA: Well, it - that was entertainment, but this is people's real lives. This is a real economy that we're dealing with, not just a network television show searching for ratings.
MARTÍNEZ: Rohit Chopra, former Federal Trade Commissioner, former director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Thank you very much for your thoughts on this.
CHOPRA: Thanks again. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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