A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
For more on President Trump's plan to create what he's calling a specialized unit of D.C. National Guard troops dedicated to public safety, Christopher Purdy is on the line with us. He served for eight years in the Army National Guard. He's now the CEO of The Chamberlain Network, a pro-democracy advocacy group made up of veterans.
So, Christopher, past presidents have assembled specialized National Guard units to carry out particular missions, and you were part of one after the 9/11 attacks. How would you say the scope of this unit compares to the one you served in?
CHRISTOPHER PURDY: Yeah, thanks for having me, A. So there's so much we don't know about this order or how it's going to be implemented. You know, the unit that I served in was about the size of 3- to 400 people. And this was composed of elements from the Air Force and Army National Guard from different states, and this was really designed to be a quick-reaction force. So states would volunteer either company or platoon-size elements, about a hundred or so troops, for this particular mission. But we don't know how this is going to be implemented. So we don't know if we're looking at an element that size, a smaller element, which means that people could potentially volunteer into this, or a larger, battalion-sized element, 700 to 1,000 troops or so. So there's still lots up in the air about this plan. It's not entirely clear if this is one unit that's being discussed in this executive order or multiple. So these are some real questions that we have.
MARTÍNEZ: And back then - I mean, is it fair to say that the mission for you and the people around you were to save Americans from terrorism back then? I mean, what does the mission appear to be here?
PURDY: Yeah, that's right. So in the mid-2000s, I was a combat engineer. And this was right after 9/11, and we were out there training on disaster recovery, search and rescue, medical services, things like that. This - the scope of this mission is quite dangerous. And what this does is it will bring National Guard troops more into law enforcement role, which - your previous guest talked about the dangers of that. The laws around that are really confusing and complex. So, you know, sending troops, nestled under a D.C. National Guard, out to communities in Idaho or Illinois or Texas to do law enforcement really kind of flies in the face of the principles that we have and the democracy of civilian control of the military.
MARTÍNEZ: If this was you, Christopher, and say you're going to be sent out, I mean, how would you approach this job or this mission?
PURDY: That's really difficult. I mean, I don't feel like I would comfortable participating in a mission that has me as a quick-reaction force, for example, to police my community members for, you know, First Amendment speech violations, for example. You know, we know that this president does not like protests. And in the wake of the 2020 protests, he, you know, tried to send the National Guard in to really crack down. I would feel really uncomfortable using my presence as a member of the military to participate in that.
MARTÍNEZ: So if you would feel uncomfortable, I mean, I would - it would - obviously just a guess on our part, but, I mean, there would be at least one or two others that are serving now that might also feel uncomfortable?
PURDY: Yeah. And so we're speaking to members of the National Guard right now who are - who have been deployed and, you know, are at risk of being called up. And there is real worry within the Guard that they will be misused against American citizens, and so really trying to determine, what are the rules that Guard members are going to be asked to implement?
So, you know, I would say morale within the Guard units that have been activated really plummets when this happens. No one wants to be used as a police force against their own neighbors. If these Guard members did want to become police, they would have gone into law enforcement, but they didn't. They served in the Army National Guard to defend their country against enemies, and being used in this way really violates the principle of which they served.
MARTÍNEZ: Based on what you've seen or heard from the president's executive order, is it clear to you how the chain of command would work here, especially if a governor doesn't want their state Guard to be used this way?
PURDY: That's really the key issue for me. So the way that I interpret this executive order is that states would send their troops to be nestled under the D.C. National Guard, which, as your previous guest mentioned, is controlled by the president. And the way that the laws around military and policing work is federalized troops cannot be used for law enforcement. But since the D.C. National Guard is technically not federalized but controlled by the president, that would be a workaround around this issue. And so we think that that's quite dangerous. And we would really urge courts to reject this theory 'cause it fundamentally undercuts the Posse Comitatus Act and - which ensures the president can't use the military as a domestic police force.
MARTÍNEZ: Well, I was going to ask, then, about maybe broader implications in terms of the president's use of his executive power.
PURDY: I mean, what this does is it retools both the National Guard and some federal agencies into a new type of law enforcement arm. So I - you know, we haven't discussed the other part of this executive order. On the executive branch side of things, it converts agencies that typically don't do a lot of public policing, like the Park Service, Department of Transportation, even the Department of Housing and Urban Development, into agencies that would have more of a law enforcement role. So this order is quite expansive and quite dangerous.
MARTÍNEZ: Christopher Purdy is an Army National Guard veteran who served in Iraq. He's also the CEO of The Chamberlain Network. Christopher, thanks.
PURDY: Thank you.
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