SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
It was a whirlwind night at the Justice Department. Yesterday evening, the DOJ moved to abandon an appeal against four big law firms targeted by President Trump. But this morning, government lawyers reversed course, told the court, never mind and asked to continue the appeal. NPR's Carrie Johnson has been following this legal saga. She is here to help us understand what it means. Hi, Carrie.
CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
DETROW: A lot to talk about. First, let's rewind. This fight has been going on for nearly a year. Remind us how we got here.
JOHNSON: President Trump slapped executive orders on law firms that hired people who investigated him, firms like WilmerHale and Jenner & Block. And the president then went after other firms that worked for Democrats or worked for clients he didn't like, firms like Perkins Coie and Susman Godfrey. The White House actually tried to ban some of these lawyers from entering federal buildings and from getting federal contracts. These four firms fought back. They sued. They enlisted the best attorneys they could find. Three former U.S. solicitors general for both Democratic and Republican presidents threw their weight behind these law firms that challenged the administration.
DETROW: What about judges? How did they look at these challenges?
JOHNSON: Lower court judges sided with the law firms, not the White House, and they said it was not a close call. Judges said these orders were wildly unconstitutional. One judge said it sent a little chill up her spine. The Justice Department appealed those rulings, and it was set to file court papers by Friday as a next step. Instead, last night, DOJ backed away from the appeals. And then this morning, Scott, it filed a new motion with the Appeals Court asking to go ahead. The clerk's office had not yet acted on the motion from last night, so the case still seems to be on the docket, but I'm really watching to see what the court does next.
DETROW: I mean, generally speaking, legal decisions are things that are thought out in advance, right? That's my understanding, at least. I'm curious, how did this sudden reversal go down?
JOHNSON: A lot of questions, not a lot of answers right now. I'm told the DOJ actually reached out to the law firms over this past weekend to signal it would pull the plug on the appeals. So that had been the plan for several days. But this morning, the firms got word the administration changed its mind. It's not clear whether President Trump objected or if there was some miscommunication inside the Department of Justice or between DOJ and the White House. Either way, Scott, this is both weird and embarrassing - seems like a political move, not a legal one. As one appellate lawyer said on social media, DOJ must be such a fun place to work these days.
DETROW: Is there something bigger at stake here?
JOHNSON: There is. The legal system in the U.S. depends on attorneys to bring cases. If people cannot find a lawyer, their rights are at risk. The White House really scared off a lot of law firms from taking cases on immigration and other pro bono causes last year. Nine big law firms settled with the White House rather than face these harsh executive orders. Now those settlements feel different. Vanita Gupta was a DOJ official under presidents Obama and Biden.
VANITA GUPTA: Absolutely this will go down as one of the darker episodes in this era because of what it said to the country about some of the country's most elite lawyers being so willing to discard ethical norms and obligations and undermine the rule of law in order to stay in the graces of the president and to increase profit.
JOHNSON: Vanita Gupta says the firms that went to court have so far won a resounding victory, and she hopes media companies and universities under a lot of pressure from the White House will get a boost to fight back, too.
DETROW: As far as you can tell - maybe it's a hard question to answer - what comes next?
JOHNSON: We're waiting to see what the Appeals Court does and whether DOJ actually files that brief on Friday, as was the original plan.
DETROW: That is NPR's Carrie Johnson. Carrie, thank you so much.
JOHNSON: Happy to be here.
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