ADRIAN MA, HOST:
Most weekends, we like to spotlight great podcasts from local NPR member stations. This week's featured show from KALW in San Francisco is different than most, though, and that's because it's a collaboration between professional journalists and people incarcerated in California prisons.
The show is called Uncuffed. Since it began, some of its participants have gone on to become professional storytellers and organizers, and the latest season focuses on Greg Eskridge, who spent more than 30 years in prison. And each episode provides an intimate look at his life on the outside after he was paroled. Recently, Eskridge talked about it with my colleague, Emily Kwong.
EMILY KWONG, BYLINE: Let's start with the beginning of your season. You are released on parole, and you go through the prison gates for the last time.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "UNCUFFED")
GREG ESKRIDGE: And then you finally get to a last gate before you actually are off the premises, and it's just a parking lot. It's just a parking lot. It's so crazy how you would think, like, freedom would be miles and miles away from the prison. But freedom is literally just a few feet away.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Eskridge.
(CHEERING)
KWONG: What was going through your mind at that moment?
ESKRIDGE: Finally, finally. It had been 30 years, and I just couldn't wait to step out and my feet touch freedom because I had become so familiar and too familiar with isolation and incarceration.
KWONG: How did it feel, like, in your feet? What did you see with your eyes out there?
ESKRIDGE: So you're sitting in the van, and I'm walking - I'm driving in the van, and you can see the - my family, and you can see friends. You can see everyone running around and gathering and waiting to receive me. And that feeling of being received was so strong and so powerful. It just made the moment just more memorable and just more powerful. And when my feet touched the ground, it felt like I was truly finally stable and anchored. I wasn't wondering. I wasn't considering. It just felt like I finally was able to take steps into a new life.
KWONG: Wow. That high must have lasted a very long time.
ESKRIDGE: That high is still lasting. In fact, there has been nothing out in the world that has compared to that moment since I got out of prison back in 2024.
KWONG: You got space in a way you haven't been able to, quiet in a way you haven't been able to, and also time, it seems, in a way you haven't been able to - time to talk to people without a clock ticking or a guard watching. And one of those people you talked to for this show, very frankly, was your mom, Patricia Eskridge. That was quite an episode.
Let's listen to some of it. You talked to her about your childhood and specifically the abuse that your stepfather perpetuated against you. And at one point, your mom had this to say.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "UNCUFFED")
PATRICIA ESKRIDGE: You know, even though I had you at a young age, I was still proud of you as a son. And I did love you. I really genuinely loved you.
ESKRIDGE: It's good to hear that I was loved. It's probably going to take some time for that to really, truly sink in...
P ESKRIDGE: Of course.
ESKRIDGE: ...'cause this isn't - you know, there's been a lot of pain in my life.
KWONG: What did you learn about your relationship to your mom or your life through that conversation?
ESKRIDGE: I went into that conversation without any judgment. And hearing her tell me that she loved me - at that moment, it was difficult. It was difficult to hear because it was something I never heard from her before. But because I've forgiven her, I'd hold on to no resentments, I now allow that love from her to come in, and I just learned to really have a lot of compassion for myself. I didn't really realize that I was holding on to so much until I started to doing that necessary, difficult work and looking back at those people that caused harm in the past. And...
KWONG: Yeah.
ESKRIDGE: It was totally about forgiveness. And so I learned my mother is an amazing human being. She's super funny. She's very thoughtful. She's very caring. And I'm continuing to still learn from her.
KWONG: The life wisdom in Uncuffed is on another level. I mean, it's an unbelievable show. There's so much people can learn from it if they know someone who's incarcerated or they themselves are or they're navigating life after. For anyone who listens, I mean, what do you want them to know about being on parole and how to support someone who's on parole?
ESKRIDGE: See, I just really want people to really know that change is very slow, and it's very difficult work. You know, no one gets parole by accident. You know, you have to sit down with what you've done. You have to look at yourself honestly, and that's uncomfortable work, but it's necessary. You know, and I also want people to really know that we are not the worst things that we've ever done. We're responsible for it. And what that means is that the parole board saw something in a lot of people in prison who they grant parole - that it was very real, that their transformation was real.
And so how you can support folks who are coming home is to be there for them. There's obviously the financial needs, the housing needs and all of these different things. But I think more so, folks need the emotional support, and folks need to see that they are being held by a community of people because there are a lot of challenges that a lot of us are going to face when you come out of prison that you didn't face inside the prison.
KWONG: When you were inside, I bet you pictured what your life would be like out. But now that you're out, what do you see for your future?
ESKRIDGE: I mean, I hope I'm somewhere in Tahiti, actually, on a vacation. No, but I hope I can continue to do this amazing work because I definitely truly understand the power of a second chance and what it can do for folks. And there are a lot of amazing people who definitely deserve a second chance, and I hope I can continue to bring those beautiful voices outside of that place so the world can continue to just hear about the phenomenal people that are in these places.
KWONG: That is Greg Eskridge. He documented his first year as a free man after 30 years in prison for KALW's Uncuffed podcast. He's also the co-director of that project. Thank you for talking to us about it.
ESKRIDGE: Thank you all for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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