LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Let's hear more about the reaction and possible impact of these sanctions from Zena Agha. She's a writer, policy analyst on Palestinian affairs and the deputy director of the British Palestinian Committee, a group that advocates for Palestinian rights. Good morning, and welcome to the program.
ZENA AGHA: Good morning.
FADEL: So the British Palestinian Committee was one of several groups that called for the U.K. prime minister to sanction Israel. What is your reaction to these specific sanctions?
AGHA: Our reaction is that this is, of course, a welcome step. But ultimately, it'll be judged not by its rhetoric, but really by the degree to which it's able to be enforced both within this current Andy Burnham administration and beyond. And it's through that lens that I think we'll be able to make a final verdict.
FADEL: The British foreign secretary, Ed Miliband, called it the beginning of a new approach. Do you see it that way?
AGHA: I hope so. I mean, I think the approach thus far could not be worse. So the hope is that, of course, this would be the beginning of a new approach. But ultimately, unless Palestinians are listened to and have a seat at the table, and we take - we understand Palestine beyond just the occupied territories, I think any measures will always be taken as piecemeal.
FADEL: When you say - we understand Palestine as beyond the occupied territories - what do you mean?
AGHA: I mean, the occupied territories of Gaza, East Jerusalem and West Bank, which are under - fall under a particular legal obligation. And the steps announced yesterday were a nod to the international legal framework that the U.K. and allies subscribe to, but also the modern Israeli state. And how do we make sense of settlements not just within the West Bank, but across all of historic Palestine?
FADEL: So you're talking about both the respect of international law, but the aspirations of a future Palestinian state.
AGHA: Yes, and also historical justice - the degree to which settlements aren't just limited to those which were established beyond the Green Line. Let's not forget that the Nakba, the ethnic cleansing in 1948, resulted in hundreds of settlements all over Palestinian land. And I think that also needs to be part of the discourse, which I believe in most mainstream discussions might be obfuscated but, of course, has great value and import to the Palestinian cause and affects how Palestinians both approach and understand these current announcements.
FADEL: Now, the Israeli foreign minister called the decision by the U.K. antisemitic, that - said it would fail, that it would actually hurt Palestinians who work in Israel and that the Palestinian Authority will not be, quote, "immune." Is there a risk that this will make life worse for Palestinians?
AGHA: I mean, I think the response from the Israeli government seems to be increasingly shrill. It seems to understand that the tide is turning against them - that, you know, the isolation of the Israeli state on the international stage is only increasing. And I think to a degree, that also indicates the sustained solidarity, both from the British public and also all over the world, over the last several years and well before that, too.
In terms of whether or not it'll hurt the Palestinians, I mean, Israel is the dominant party here. Israel is the occupying power. And so what - that actually is a threatening - further threat to Palestinians to say any act of resistance or any solidarity or any attempt to rectify the grossly unjust situation across Palestine will be met with force, violence and adverse effects for those living under occupation. I think they need to be interpreted in that light. It's essentially saying, if you don't agree with us, we will punish those we're already punishing further. And that is a very hostile sentiment, which I think we ought to be taking seriously.
FADEL: You were listening along with us as our correspondent reported on the reaction from Israelis and Palestinians. And she spoke to the chairman of Duma in the West Bank, who said he wanted stronger sanctions. Do you agree? And if so, specifically what would you want the U.K. government to target?
AGHA: I absolutely agree. I mean, I think before any of this, I would just also like to remind listeners that, you know, over the last almost three years, at least 75,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza. So this is not, you know, instances of Israeli violence. Material violence, the total destruction of life and land, is not irrelevant to the current discussion. The Israeli state has demonstrated that it is very capable of killing, maiming, torturing and incarcerating Palestinians wherever they may be.
And I know that cities - towns and cities and villages in the West Bank have been particularly hard hit. And so it's, you know, the announcements have that orientation in mind. I agree that they haven't gone far enough. In fact, what the U.K. has announced is only a step towards what it must do under international law. The ask, or the request, is actually just to meet the obligations within international law. So, you know, the bar is actually quite low in that regard.
But in terms of substantively how we would like this to go further, this means a comprehensive sanction - a set of sanctions on the Israeli state, targeted sanctions on Israeli ministers and officials who've been responsible personally for grave violations of international law, supporting the enforcement of international arrest warrants and the prosecution of Israeli leaders who are wanted in the Hague for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity.
And a two-way ban on arms is absolutely essential, including the provision of components - which the U.K. plays a big part of - that support and enable Israel's military operation. And the government yesterday has already stated that F-35 parts will continue to - could be provided indirectly through the global pool. So we're already seeing steps taken to temper the announcements made yesterday.
FADEL: Zena Agha is deputy director of the British Palestinian Committee. Thank you for your time.
AGHA: Thank you very much. Goodbye. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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