SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
We begin with two stories that illustrate the challenges and perils of nations sharing intelligence. In a moment, we will hear how the recent arrest of Germany's former chief spy on treason and espionage charges has left that country reeling.
AILSA CHANG, HOST:
But let's start here in the U.S. American spy agencies and the military share intelligence with Ukraine in its fight against Russia. Now, in an interview with NPR, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the Trump administration is threatening to cut off that cooperation. We're going to bring in now NPR's Greg Myre. He covers national security. Hi, Greg.
GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: Hi. OK, so Ukraine is saying that this absolutely critical military communication system has suddenly been restricted without any warning whatsoever. What's going on here?
MYRE: Yeah, Ukraine's military depends heavily on something called Starshield. And this grew directly out of the more well- known Starlink, the satellite communications company owned by Elon Musk.
CHANG: Right.
MYRE: Now, they're sometimes mentioned interchangeably, but there is an important difference here. Starlink is the civilian version. Starshield is the more secure version used by the U.S. government and military, which the Pentagon shares with Ukraine.
CHANG: OK.
MYRE: And Ukraine depends on it for many things, most importantly to guide its very potent drones, both offensive drones that attack Russia and defensive drones to protect against Russian air strikes.
CHANG: OK. And so what is the government in Ukraine saying about what's happening?
MYRE: Yeah, Ukraine's defense ministry said in a statement that, quote, "without warning," the Starshield terminals were unilaterally limited. Ukraine says that when its drones exceed 100 mph, which they routinely do, the communication link is cut with the drone operator. So this is a huge blow to Ukraine if this restriction stays in effect. Ukraine says it's in contact with the U.S. government and SpaceX to try to sort out the problem.
CHANG: Well, is SpaceX or is the Trump administration saying anything in response to this?
MYRE: Yeah. Very recently, Elon Musk took to social media and said that Starshield is, quote, "controlled by the U.S. government. Any limits on speed or usage are decided by the U.S. military and ultimately the president." And NPR has sought comment from the White House and from the Pentagon. They have not responded. But according to Musk, they would be responsible for any changes made to this system.
CHANG: OK. Well, President Trump has been telling Ukraine to stop attacking Russian diesel facilities. Could all of this that you're describing be related to that?
MYRE: Yeah, it certainly seems so. Just yesterday, NPR's Ukraine correspondent Joanna Kakissis interviewed President Zelenskyy in Kyiv. This was just hours before this latest development we're talking about. And she asked Zelenskyy if the U.S. was going to cut off intelligence. Here's what he said.
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PRESIDENT/NPR CLIP VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: We need Starlink. We asked the administration, government and SpaceX on different channels. We asked them to share with us Starlink only for military goals.
MYRE: So Trump said yesterday that intelligence sharing hadn't been cut off. But what we're seeing today certainly looks like an intentional action to limit Ukraine's ability to fight Russia.
CHANG: Well, another thing President Trump said, this week at least, was that there was some sort of so-called energy ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine. Any sign of that actually happening?
MYRE: Yeah, Ailsa, absolutely not. Zelenskyy said Russia fired 39 ballistic missiles at his country overnight, knocked out power to a large part of Kyiv. Russia says explicitly it's ramping up attacks on Ukraine's energy system in an attempt to bring about the collapse of the electricity grid this winter. And Ukraine is also attacking Russia. It hit three large data centers this.
But Zelenskyy says Ukraine has refrained the past few days from attacking Russian energy sites because he would like to see this energy truce that Trump is at least talking about. But no sign that this is happening. Trump is putting all the pressure on Ukraine, not on Russia. And he recently announced a plan to buy diesel fuel from Russia. It's not clear that Russia even has that diesel fuel to sell, but Trump is making his priority clear. He wants to bring down fuel prices at home.
CHANG: That is NPR's Greg Myre. Thank you, Greg.
MYRE: Sure thing, Ailsa. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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