MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
This week marks four years since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Four years of Russian attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure. Four years of hundreds of thousands of casualties on both sides. Four years of Ukraine building its drone program. These are just a few of the things I discussed today with Ukraine's ambassador to the United States, Olga Stefanishyna. We caught up before a live audience at the Council on Foreign Relations here in Washington, and I began by asking the ambassador - paint a picture of life in Ukraine.
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: It's dark. It's cold. Just before leaving to Washington, I had a meeting with one of my friends. She is CEO of one of the biggest Ukrainian energy companies.
KELLY: OK.
STEFANISHYNA: And she's a very influential person in Ukraine, but what she was really caring about after leaving the meeting, that she will make it to the 14th floor. And then when she will make it to the 14th floor where she lives, she would have enough time to have enough electricity to prepare the dinner for her family. And that if she will be lucky enough to do, too, all of that, too, that she should make sure that all the generators are charged. And, you know, this is what's in the minds of the people.
KELLY: I'm told that's almost a constant soundtrack to life now in Kyiv, the hum of the generators, because there's never...
STEFANISHYNA: Yeah, and, you know...
KELLY: ...Reliable power to get your elevator to go up the building.
STEFANISHYNA: Yeah. And in 2022, you know - I have a lot of videos also on social media I was making with the sound of the generator. It was almost a sound of the nightlife, but now it's far more severe.
KELLY: So let's go to the peace talks. The U.S., as you know, has taken the lead on brokering talks to try to end this war. Is it clear to you, Ambassador, that the U.S. has a coherent plan to end this war?
STEFANISHYNA: Well, I think we should work on building the same understanding around the wording, you know, end this war. What we hear from President Trump is, like, two major things which led us to where we are. He's the president of the United States, who have made a personal commitment, even before he stepped into the formal position of the 47th president of the United States, that he will end the war, and he will...
KELLY: On Day 1, he said.
STEFANISHYNA: Yeah. I mean, this is not about the timelines. You know, we were never concentrating on this particular point. So security guarantees - it's implementation and enforcement of security guarantees, enforcement of the arrangement, which hopefully will be agreed with the mediation of the United States.
KELLY: A central question all along to me has been what kind of security guarantee would you need in Ukraine to be sure that Vladimir Putin wouldn't sign on the line, go home, lick his wounds and come back two years later?
STEFANISHYNA: Yeah. When we're talking about the security guarantees, I would just put you on a spot where we should not consider security guarantees as a document for Ukraine, right? It is important for Ukraine. But also, this is the arrangement which secures the enforcement of any agreement which will be signed with Russians or maybe signed with Russians, right?
KELLY: So can you be specific on what kind of security guarantees would be acceptable to Ukraine?
STEFANISHYNA: Well, this is, like, American security guarantees and also...
KELLY: Yeah.
STEFANISHYNA: ...European contribution. First is, like, Article 5-like wording, which means that this is the protocol for immediate reaction in case of, you know, repeated aggression. Secondly, it's a in-field military presence of foreign fighters, foreign military presence, which will monitor and secure, actually together with the Ukrainian armed forces.
KELLY: The U.S.-Ukraine relationship is a lot bigger than this war and peace talks. It is deep. It's a relationship that has had ups and downs and challenges, and that remains true. But in the interest of landing us on a note of some kind of hope, I wonder what else you hope to do, what opportunities you see for cooperation, aside from these peace talks.
STEFANISHYNA: Well, I would rather give a more personal answer to this question. So when I landed here as the ambassador, I've learned a couple of things - that we have never made enough effort to educate Ukrainians on what real America is, how big this country, how rich this country, how powerful this country. But also, I think it's really important to explore the potential of these relations. We can provide so much more for the United States. And I want American government know Ukraine from so many other different perspectives. But I think these relations are only to be explored. They were political. They started to be economic with the mineral deal formally signed and so much more to go. And I really hope that it will happen.
KELLY: That is Ukraine's ambassador to the U.S., Olga Stefanishyna, speaking with me on stage at the Council on Foreign Relations earlier today. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
